Tuesday, February 23, 2016

Nikon D70s Full Review 2016/2017: Test Shots And Complete Analysis

Update: 03 Dec 2016

I had been lusting after a Nikon D70s since atleast 2011, you might wonder why?. Many reasons – an extraordinary Sony sensor, almost all features of the D200 in a smaller body, cheap, versatile, the reasons are endless. And yes, it is still relevant in 2017. Thom Hogan, who visits my blog from time to time, (like he does many others for research on his articles) may throw away this camera even if somebody gave it to him for free, but there are many thousands of photogs around the world who swear by CCD sensor cameras like the D70s. Just go into some forums and you will know. 

D70s is the cheapest camera (used camera as of date from Nikon) with a built in auto-focus motor. I bought it cheap for approx $150 from an online buyers forum. Among the cheap backups I initially planned to get a D3200, but since the lack of an autofocus motor is a huge bummer, I wanted to go for a D7000, but then the high prices of this camera put me off. What other options did I have?? Among the older generation cameras I could go for the D80, but its color profile and output is too similar to D200, infact its the same sensor. The D80 has the 2 channel output, whereas the D200 has a 4 channel output (the D300 has a 12 channel output, which explains the high fps which is a result of the faster buffer offload). 


The current photo "Gurus" like David Hobby and Zack Arias started out with the D70/70s in their initial days. Zack even acknowledged in one his training videos the skin tone resolving power of the D70, which he called "mind-blowing". Zack later moved on to the D200, then a D3, then a Mark 1, II, so on and so forth. D70s also heralded the entry of many previously film dependent photographer's foray into digital photography. 

JPEG Latitude


Even the basic JPGS from the D200 have a lot of latitude in editing. Though the same cannot be said about the D70s files, they aren't terribly limited like the files from garbage cameras like Olympus 510 etc. Shooting NEF helps. The images from the D70s are already too perfect and mostly do not need any further processing. There are debates online regarding D70s’s compression algorithm, some say its lossy, some say its lossless compressed, I don't know. NEF files average between 4.3MB to 6MB. Small file sizes aren't taxing on your PC or laptop and you can grab a bunch of them and dump them into an editor for batch processing. If you are shooting in a high volume, the meager 6.1 MegaPixel and the subsequent file sizes are a blessing as they will fast-track your work flow. 


The files of D70s even though dont have as much latitude as the files from D200 or D300 or even a D40x or a D60, or a D80 which have more resolution because of their 10 MP CCD. Whatever the file latitude, dynamic range and IQ, you will get from this camera, its plenty enough for a small shoots. I have ordered prints in varying sizes of 4X6 to 8X10 and they look good enough. Using this camera for professional purposes isn't suggestible as it does not have too many pro functions. At the most this can be an indoor/studio camera or backup to a backup camera. Its suitable for small product photography shoots or catalog shoots for not so demanding clients, who haven't got big budgets and might use the pictures for web use only. 




The limitation of 6 megapixels is evident when compared to modern cameras, but the point is even images from Medium Format digital cameras are downgraded and heavily resized for posting online. Even the portfolio sites of most photographers do not contain high res files. They are highly compressed, resized for saving web data space. Note: The world is going crazy about HD and full HD these days. Full HD , i.e 1080p is approximately only just 2 MegaPixels. Even most multiplexes around the world project digital cinema at only 720p, which is less than 2 MegaPixels. The indie hit 28 Days Later, directed by Danny Boyle, starring Cillian Murphy (Now a Peaky Blinder) was shot on a consumer grade digital video camera that had less than 1 Megapixel resolution. It was later telecined and transferred to 35mm motion film. Now you have a 6 Megapixel camera. Think about it. 




I am NOT against using higher MegaPixel cameras like the D800 series or other higher end cameras. I am just saying there is a time and place for everything. I did have an excellent Nikon D800E which I was using to shoot high-end jobs, but unfortunately it was stolen in the April of 2016 from my house along with my 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. I lost jobs because of that theft and ofcourse it still pains me to think that I lost my years of hard earned savings with that camera. I might go for a D810 after a while when I can save enough money. Sigh ! 





Even though color profile is similar to D200, D300, albeit few differences in hue, it can still be used alongside them. I suggest buying a D40x or D60 or D80 as a back up or indoor cameras because of their higher resolution. The D40x or the D60 can also be excellent back-ups to the D200 or D300 as the 10.2 MegaPixel CCD gives enough latitude in editing, but ofcourse they don't have an auto-focus motor, its definitely a drawback as they wont focus with the D lenses, which are considerably cheaper than the AF-S type, but when all you shoot is catalogs or stock photography at home in controlled lighting conditions, you can get away with manual focus any D lens you may have. It doesn't matter anyway, as you are in no hurry.  





I personally love old cameras and I am a big fan of CCD sensors. As mentioned earlier, I was planning to buy the D70s since atleast 2011, but couldn't find a piece that was good enough and the prices were too high. Another reason I wanted to buy the D70s was that I didnt want to strain my D200 for each and every small hanky panky shoot. I needed a camera for favors that you do for friends, and jobs where the client pay is dicey, small, no budget shoots, that don't require the heavy duty D200.

The higher MegaPixel count of the D200 or D300 Trump (Yeah MAGA bitches) this camera in a lot of ways.  Do not ignore the D60 or D40x as back-up cameras, yes even in 2016. SOOC JPEGs from both the D60 and D40x are mind blowing to say the least. Yes even in 2016. Thanks to their excellent sensors. Getting good color and dynamic range from the D70s requires some good lighting techniques in either day light or with strobe lighting and also some minimal, but clever editing and enhancing. However, low light images cannot in any way be saved. 


Observe the color shift of the D70s in the below comparison picture. Yes its a bit yellow.

D70s Menu

There is nothing I miss from the D200. All the important menu items I use regularly on the D200 are all there including the custom picture profile. It would have been wonderful if there was ISO 50, but unfortunately no,  the base ISO is 200. Though its not much of a deal breaker as at the 200 base ISO the pictures are noise free because of the CCD sensor. This attribute is absent even in the pro D300 which has the same base ISO of 200 but the micro level noise is apparent in the D300. Sure there is low ISO setting, but I couldnt tell the noise pattern difference at the base ISO of 200 and low ISO of the D300. 


Another surprising omission is the kelvin temperature on the D70s. There are 3 levels of adjustment in daylight white balance, which if went down can come down to between 4600-5200 kelvin. I generally shoot between 4500k and 5000k on my D200. Anything above 5000k is too yellow in Nikon color schemes. I miss this one feature from the D200. Because of this omission, I have been shoot with daylight white balance with the -3 setting ever since, which is more or less there in terms of white balance. Mostly I shoot with Auto White Balance and adjust levels in the editor. It sometimes solves the problem, sometimes doesn't. Mixed bag. 


X-Sync


At this side away from leaf shutter lenses which have crazy sync speeds of 1/1600th , its just the D70s the stands as an old guard to the sync speed capacity at 1/500, it is still crazy given the fact that all modern DSLRs come at 1/250 or worse yet with cameras like Nikon D610, its just 1/180, which in my opinion is a bit lame. 1/500 may not be enough to cut down all that ambient light, but you can capture subtle movements of the subjects in an instant with the high shutter speed, meaning sharper images. This will also give you more light control if you are shooting with strobes. If 1/500th isn't enough, you can always use a cheaper ND/CPL combination from amazon, that will do the job. 

Commander Mode


This was a surprise to me. This meager 6.1 mega affordable DSLR has a commander mode for off camera strobist work. Wow. You can set the flash power on the camera down to 1/128th power and this flash pulse can be used to trigger your SB series speed lights. I personally have a SB-600 and with a little googling I learnt how to sync it to my camera. The resultant images were a revelation. I love strobist work. Btw to my knowledge, the Nikon SB flashes are not "dumb" slave flashes and wont slave sync with other off brand flashes, they either need other SB flashes or can only be controlled through a commander mode on some select Nikon DSLRs. Correct me if I am wrong. 


Other cameras that have 1/500th flash sync are-

1) Nikon D1, D1x, D1H, 
Nikon 70, D50, D4 also sync to 1/500th 


Sensor Tech.


The sensor tech in the D70s is from 2005, when similar cameras like Minolta maxxum 5D, 7D, Fuji S5 pro were released.  6 megapixel was the absolute ceiling for APS-C sensors then. Incidentally the S5 pro has a Kodak sensor (Kodak sensors are legendary). The D70s also has a very high pixel pitch of 7.8 microns. The Nikon D100 also sports a 6 MegaPixel sensor, I dont know if its the same one as the D70s, but from the look of the D100 images i can surely tell the algorithms of both cameras are very different. The D100 is a more pro leaning camera. 

The D70/70s sensor is very special. It isn't your run off the mill sensor. It belongs in the sensor hall of fame, graced by other almost magical sensors like the ones in the D100, D200/D80/D40x/D60, Maxxum 5D/7D, Leica M8/M9 and Fuji S5 Pro. 

D70s sensor and the kit lens 18-70


Nikon realized the fact that the D70 sensor is too contrasty and paired it with a lens that has low contrast to offset and compensate for the sensor’s over enthusiasm in color. This lens was specifically developed by Nikon for the D70/D70s. There is neither any problem with the D70s sensor or the 18-70 lens. This is a subjective issue. I personally love rich, colorful pictures.





Image quality/comparison with Leica M8 and M9

All the pictures of this product are Basic JPEGs from the D70s. Unfortunately you can't shoot 
JPEG Fine and NEF at the same time. 

Doing some research I was surprised to come across a site called Nikon D70 fan on the interwebs. The link is here. There are quite many articles relating to the D70 (D70 and D70s both share the same sensor, but you know that already). Here the author of the blog says that the image quality of the D70 is equal to that of Leica M8 and M9..really??? I want to believe :P
https://nikond70fan.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/sensors-in-deep/



UPDATE as on 13 Nov 2016: I was just flattering myself with the comparison with Leica M8 and M9, which are in many ways a lot ahead of the D70s. This could be a poor man's Leica and it deserves to be so. This camera needs lots of light if you want to shoot good pictures. Low light/indoor flash pictures from the D70s are an abomination. Editing them cannot save them. Incidentally I didn't face this problem with the D200, D300 pictures. There's only so much you can do with the D70s pictures shot indoors in low light. 

External Controls and Body



Though the body is plastic, it does not feel cheap or flimsy. Compared to the D200, the multi-selector wheel is too small for my big fingers. Thankfully there is a dedicated ISO button. The Camera shares the CF card door to the Nikon D100. Additionally there is a top LCD and an illumination button which is absent on the D200, wherein its a menu item.


Deal Makers For The D70s
  • Built in auto focus motor
  • Top LCD
  • Dirt cheap price
  • CCD sensor
  • Accepts CF card 
  • Separate scroll wheels for both aperture and shutter speed
Deal Breakers For The D70s:

  • Meager 6.1 megapixel sensor (problem starts when you start comparing MP)
  • Low torque auto-focus motor
  • Occasional hue shifts
  • Compressed RAW and JPEG (not a lot to wok with, but that could be a blessing in disguise) 

UPDATE as on 13 Nov 2016: Should you buy this camera in 2016/2017 ?? If you are a home shooter, shooting catalogs, stock, micro stock like me then this camera is for you. BTW the skin tones from this camera are 100% dead on accurate due to the CCD sensor, so you can use it for portraits and such. If you are or want to be a "Professional" photographer, with big aspirations, then this isn't for you. However, if you are a photographer who makes or wants to make a living, making ends meet with what they can afford and needs a cheap throw away camera, then this is for you.  However if you are looking for something to shoot indoors for say a product, clothing or a jewellery catalog or still life etc. under controlled strobe lighting, and dont need large files and are primarily shooting in huge volumes then you can use this camera, but in hindsight you are better off with something like a D80 or D40x or D60 which have 10.2 MegaPixel CCD and will give you a lot more resolution than the D70s. If you are feeling a little extravagant then a D200 would be great too, though D200 in itself is NOT a battery champion (soon coming: article on increasing the battery power of Nikon D200 in a 2017 review of the camera), compared to the D80, D40x or either the D60.   

Note: All the pictures of the D70s DSLR are shot with the Nikon D200 DSLR and I have kept the EXIF data intact for your technical review and personal study. Have fun. 

Hope this article was helpful. Let me know in the comments. It keeps me charged up. 

Cheers & Happy clicking.

Viisshnu Vardhan.

P.S: Here is an interesting comparison/thoughts on the Epson RD1 and Nikon D70s/D100

38 comments:

Alwin said...

Sorry to hear about your loss of your d800, hope it can be recovered. Apart from that very interesting article! I was infact planning on adding a d70s to my line up and your article and the link somehow assures me that my decision cant be wrong even in mid 2017! However in my opinion I m scared of cameras/sensors with low dynamic range.... its not that I need super dynamic range (400% in s3 or s5) but respectable numbers. That being said I love my d200 like u do but it seriously lacks dynamic range imo. Too much shadow noise even after correct exposure and edit in NEF! (I would really appreciate your input to get most out a d200!)
Also the epson RD1 is a great camera but 1500 dollars is just unacceptable! Would rather get a leica m8 for that!! Leica certainl makes great cameras, no doubt about that. And it sure is fucking expensive for the common fry. But if one cant afford it doesnt mean the grapes are sour ;) cheers

Viisshnu said...

D800E is gone. Unfortunately no way to get it back. In all honesty can't suggest a D70s in 2017. I would suggest a D80 instead. 6 mp is too less in 2017, which I realised. I sold off mine a few days ago for like $170 along with my 18-55 VR lens. Not much dynamic range is not a problem. These Sony sensors in the D80, D60 and D40x are very very special. There are also not too far behind in terms of dynamic range. If dynamic range is a concern I would suggest a D3300. Brilliant camera. Highly underrated. I borrow it from a friend and use it from time to time. Google my name and check my pictures shot with the D3300 on Flickr. If you are shooting raw and in good lighting, D200 is no slouch in dynamic range. Ofcourse it's not comparable to modern cameras but the excellence, punch, color, perfection of D200 image is lacking in modern cameras. It's organic. It's as close you can get to film like rendering in digital, but you know that already. I don't worry about pixel level details when shooting with my D200, that's delving too deep. Unnecessary in my opinion. I shoot NEF+JPEG fine for paid shoots and give off JPEGs SOOC. Not a single client complained. I do NEF editing in NX and light room when required only for a few jobs.
RD1 is obsolete. Yes for 1500 quid I might as well get a M8, but it is surpassed even by the entry level cameras in Nikon D3300 which has great rating on DxO Mark. APS-C cameras from leica aren't any better than entry level Fuji x cameras. I am getting an X-E1 soon. I will surely get a leica M9, but only if the prices are within my reach. And I am sure they won't be anytime zoom. Till then I might entertain the idea of pairing a D3300 with a ZF.2 Zeiss planar 50 1.4. just my two cents. ;)

Alwin said...

Its a pity... I hope the one who stole it made good use of it than sell it to buy drugs :( infact I too dumped the idea of getting a d70/70s, I think its past its prime. Maybe its good for a beginner or a hobby, I dont know.
Isnt d3300 a cmos camera? I think d3000 was the last nikon dslr with a ccd, am I right?
U see I sold off the d300 at a throw away price as I could not stand the output from the camera, - artificial, unorganic, lifeless pictures :( I noticed I wasnt even feeling enthusiastic taking pictures with that camera!
What a coincidence, even I am looking for rangefinders, and that too fuji!! ;) btw I am looking at the x pro1 which is discounted now. But after reading and reasearching I came to know of issues regarding skin tone, colour... according to various forums the skin looks waxy in the pics out of fuji cameras! I think its the CMOS. The cmos sensor was not made for fine photography, and it never will!! Unlike ccd , cmos is not analog in nature. Put it best this way,- CCD captures the image, cmos scans the image! I guess u get that.
Imo leica m8 is a very gorgeous and able camera and if u can gather some more money, maybe the leica m9.
Or if u fancy medium format then the Pentax 645d medium format CCD sensor camera is not too expensive these days.
D3300 plus zeiss is not bad but fuji s3, s5 with zeiss is nothing but terrific! Cheers

Viisshnu said...

Karma will back to bite the ass of anybody who does harm to others. Actually the person/s who stole is a drug abuser and regular user of drugs. Police cant help, even after showing them the CCTV footage. Thats how law works in India unfortunately. Yes, the D3300 is CMOS, I was suggesting it with regards to dynamic range. The images from D200 was photographically perfect, not so with the D3300, but if you are able to find work arounds, it can be easily used by a Pro. I use it to shoot catalogues at my studio when high resolution is needed. 24 MP NEF files are huge as you know. The D5300 is also a great camera, but I neither have the money to buy it, nor does anybody I know has it. It is still a bit expensive, but the image quality is brilliant, dynamic range and all. As good as Leica, its the only thing I like after the D200. Yes its true D3000 was the last CCD camera from Nikon and it was utter garbage.
D300 is garbage for a person who appreciates the finesse of pictures. D200 is a connoisseur's camera. D300 is not. Its for regular working photographers who dont need finesse or excellence. You are 100% right, pictures from D300 are artifical, unorganic and lifeless. They tried to replicate the D200 image quality with processing/software mechanism, but failed. When the sensor itself is garbage, what can processing do?? That is the reason I sold it off too. When I say the same thing on dpreview idiots come and attack me. Currently a fight is going on between me and some clowns on dpreview about the D200. Ok thats for another time.

Viisshnu said...

Xpro1 is a great bargain right now. Its better to get the Xpro1 than a Leica M8 or M9 in 2017. Both are obsolete in terms of image quality. Fujifilm's CMOS sensors are as good as CCD when it comes to the organic quality. Almost like CCD, almost film like, just a bit better dynamic range than D200. Ofcourse that depends on what you shoot. Xpro1 is a poor man's Leica M9. Get it while you can.
I didnt read any skin tone problems with the Xpro1. Its sensor is as close you can get to CCD quality skin tones. Check out Xpro1 portraits on flickr. Most photography forums are filled with amateur clowns who dont know shit about anything. Dont trust them. X-E1 is a great bargain too. I think you will be fine with any X-Trans sensor.

Viisshnu said...

Earlier generation CMOS sensors were NOT made for photography, some modern sensors are a different story. Ofcourse even today not all of them are good. Sony a7 series is utter garbage. I never bought their hype. However I do have an excellent Sony a200 10MP CCD camera. Gorgeous sensor. Had to sell it when I needed money, but luckily got an almost brand new piece in box with just 2000 shutter actuations for the same price I sold it off at. Lucky that way, the images it produces blows the socks off any CMOS camera even today, bar none. The depth, color, three dimensionality, rendering is mind blowing, incidentally has more dynamic range than my D200, but each of my cameras have their own sublime quality. Check out some of my bike pictures on flickr. The sony SLTs are a different story, complete crap, so are the nex cameras, never bought their scam. Fuji blows the smoke up the sony's ass.

Viisshnu said...

CMOS sensors because of their architecture capture less light and are less efficient in capturing the color information, since its cheaper DSLR makers started using them. Though fundamentally they do the same work both CMOS and CCD sensor architecture is different. For CCDs the processing unit is separate, whereas on a CMOS chip the processing can be integrated on the same sensor. CMOS sensors also consume less power and the battery economy is increased, but who needs battery efficiency when images look like crap ?? haha.

Viisshnu said...

CCD sensors bend the light at 90 degrees. That is the reason they look so perfect and proper when compared to CMOS sensor images. They are more pleasing to the eye as the light is captured with a geometric uniformity and efficiency. This is the secret of the CCD sensors. May be modern CMOS sensors are doing the same, I dont have any information regarding that.
Irrespective of being a CMOS or CCD any DSLR is basically a high speed scanner. A flatbed scanner, a computer mouse and a DSLR basically use more or less same technology and logic with a little bit of variation.

Viisshnu said...

I am thinking I might as well get the Xpro1 and pair it with a zeiss zm or some leica glass instead of a M8 or M9.
Pentax 645 is a great camera, but still too pricey for a frugal photographer like me. Its more of a studio camera and I cant carry it everywhere unfortunately. Its not as fast as a DSLR as well, but the image quality from that CCD sensor is mind blowing.

Alwin said...

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to write, I really appreciate the effort! 👍
Karma is a bitch and the indian police too! Haha!
I had a d50 in dec 2016. got for peanuts second hand with only 500 shutter counts and I honestly say at one time I liked pictures more out of the d50 than the d200!
But i just couldn't stand the plastic body and ergonomics of that camera and ended up selling it after a month of use. Before that in november I got a fantastic deal on the sony a350 with lenses and flash and lot other stuff and shutter count approx 4500 .
It also did great pictures for me and the live view was a handy feature. But again I ended up selling it because of its terrible plastic build. Believe me it was so flimsy built, worse than the nikkor 50mm 1.8d !!!
Have to agree that sensor on both these cameras were great.
I am still not convinced to get a cmos camera yet even if the fuji xtrans creates film grain esque images! You see modern lenses are garbage! Garbage because they have atleast one plastic or hybrid plastic element in them! I gave up on the sigma art 35mm f1.4 after I came to know it had a hybrid plastic element inside!! How dare these companies ask 800 dollars for a fucking plastic element infused lens!! More so the plastic element really affects the '3d' effect in the images!! Theres a beautiful article on the Internet about modern vs vintage glass, where the author compares the sigma art 35 1.4 with old nikkor and proves that sigma renders flat images!
I could rummage in thrift stores and get my hands on konica hex 50 1.4 and 125 f2.5 for peanuts. And I swear that the images out of these outperform any fucking modern lens. Too bad on my nikon d200 it doesnt have infinity focus though it can perfectly mount on the nikon. Pity :(

Alwin said...

About CCD and cmos, well, in this day and age where everythinf is plastic, so are the sensors! How awful is the fact the picture making tools are just plastic! Plastic lens, plastic sensors! Camera companies are not making cameras but profits! Cost cutting here, cheap fittings there, one less glass here, more plastic there! I think I will give up the idea on the xpro 1 too! Maybe I cut down on outings, buy less clothes and save money for my leica m8, m9 cos imo its worth it ;)

Alwin said...

But of all these mirroless, rangefinder tyoes I guess fuji should be the best. Sony is a consumer electronic giant and camera is just a part of that business. Whereas fuji has decades of experience in camera making and it shouod show in their products too! I am fine if you are able to justify to yourself about getting fuji x series camera but I am still skeptical. That being said if I find a fuji xtrans for peanut price I will surely want to try it out. Maybe it will meet the same fate as the d300, I dont know, cant say now.

Alwin said...

I will always have an eye on the pentax 645d, it is a beast after all. I have seen some images on the net and it blew me away! Haha. The pictures were nothing like I ve ever seen, imo though!
If I could somehow manage the funds and the idea of lugging around a huge backpack everytime, I would get it instantly. Cheers

Viisshnu said...

I love people who like to talk haha. There are only a few intelligible photographers on the internet. Most are just crazy wannabes with gear mania.That way we are different haha. Cheers to that.

D50 is a great camera with beautiful colors, but the 6 megapixels and the fact that it only takes SD cards is a deal breaker for me. 6 MP is too less in 2017 in my opinion. I wouldnt take it even if somebody gave it free.

Sony a350 has a 14 MP CCD which is the highest megapixel CCD in the world after the Leica M9, shame its a APS-C. Also the individual pixel size is too less compared to the a200. I too had a deal with a local camera store, went out to check it for it had some software issue. That was agter I had sold off my a200, luckily after a few days I got the brand new sony a200 like new in box with all papers, manuals for peanuts.

Yes thats the problem with modern entry level DSLRs. Extremely flimsy build. They cant stand the rigours of regular use. In that regards, the D200 is a beast. This is also the reason I dont use my Sony a200 for outdoor use. Very rarely.

Checkout Fuji x camera images on flickr. particularly the X-M1 and X-E1. I hope they might change your perception of CMOS sensors. The only deal breaker is the battery efficiency. One needs to have atleast two. I will give you a review after I get my X-E1, you can decide then. I have a seller for the X-M1 for around 14k. If you want I can give you his number. I have the pictures of the camera with me as well. I can forward them to your mail id. btw the X-M1 doesnt have a viewfinder, composition is through LCD only. Just a heads up.

Viisshnu said...

Plastic elements is the scam by lens makers these days. I am too not paying thousands of rupees for some plastic garbage. Almost every modern lens has plastic elements in it. The manufactures never tell you that it has plastic elements, also there is no information on the internet about what lenses have plastic elements. 100% of all sigma and tamron lenses have plastic elements. Heck even the Nikkor 70-200 2.8 has plastic elements. The light transferance of glass is a lot more than plastic elelemts. This is alo the reason images are flat and colors are off. Leica and zeiss never use plastic in their lenses. That is also the reason why they are so expensive and hard to make. Modern AF lenses with plastic bits are put together by robots as you know. No human touch. I was pining for a 70-200 2.8 Nikkor for a long time, but after reading about the plastic I just bought the 80-200 2.8 which is an extraordinary lens. No plastic, the design is also from the eighties when there were no use of plastic in lenses.

Yes the 3D effect is lost with plastic elements. It is easily achievable from glass lenses, very very hard with plastic element lenses.

Viisshnu said...

Its an accepted fact the old glass kicks ass of modern lenses. but careful when buying as lot of them have dust, balsam and haze. Buy only from trusyted sources. I am in Hyderabad, what city are you in ?? On another note dont risk mounting old bayonet lenses on Nikon. Careful.

Viisshnu said...

The fact that Pentax 645D is available for the same price of the M9 is probably the greatest news ever. Kodak CCDs are legendary, its a shame they had to sell off to TrueSense. 40 MP is more than enough for anything. The rendering is far far better than Any leica camera. I would save up to buy the 645D than a Leica M9 in 2017. Output of the camera is out of this world. It blows the smoke up any modern high megapixel cameras ass. Its a winner. Unfortunately subsequent cameras bowed down to CMOS pressure and last I heard nobody is using the CMOS pentax medium format. They shouldn't have abandoned the CCD. Big mistake. As a stop gap I suggest a Pentax K10D which has the 10.2 MP CCD and is available for peanuts on ebay. Great colors.

Viisshnu said...

Xpro1 sensor is in the sensors hall of fame. Its not at all bad, as good as any leica. Pair it with good glass you are good to go. Any old lens can be adapted to be used with the Xpro1. Dont trsut the internet on this one.

Alwin said...

Thanks for the heads up! I dont think I will need the contact details as im not based in india, hehe. I live in Basel, Switzerland. And I come on holidays to india later this month with my family. :)
After reading your replies I am in two minds always, haha. On one u say cmos is rubish and other, modern cmos will change yiur mind! Anyway since I ll be travelling I am not sure how to carry around my d200 hence I was thinking of a rangefiner, not mirrorless. I just dont want to look at the fuking lcd all the time to compose my image! Live view is handy but not all the time.
I am trying hard to squeeze another camera in my budget and I am really not sure how... if I end up buying one, it must be worth every penny I pay. Fuji xtrans system might be good and u second that but the d300 really left a bad taste in my mouth which I cant seem to get rid off!
Theres one xpro1 in mint for about 20000 inr, but as of now this 20k still means a lot to me... I have a kid, maybe get someting for him or get things for other people, I dont know. My gear lust has led me buy selfishly for myself,,, its always one last time everytime!! Hehe.
But I have to convince myself about the fuji now, lets c

Alwin said...

One good justification to buy the fuji is that im aching to try out my konica 1.4s to their full potential! Somehow I trust these lenses more than the camera I intend to put them on ;) btw the lenses are in very good condition, the focus ring is smooth, the lens are very clear, no fungus whatsoever, no oil in the aperture blades... I must ve been lucky hehe.
These lenses are not tack sharp, theyre smooth and dreamy at f1.4 to f2 and thats what I like about them.

Alwin said...

After u mentioned again, I was comapring some images from the xtrans and well, the k10d, ccd sensor. Mate, I dont know what screen u use to view images but from what I see the k10d is eons ahead in terms of image quality! Look at the depth in colour, the vibrance, the overall picture quality is just awesome from that ccd! Haha, its hard to get me into all these mirrorless shit.
Btw I wss not aware of the k10d s abilities till now! Im genuinely stunned by the few images I saw in google!
Also I am sure u might be aware that any decent mirrorless be it sony, fuji xpro, they all are somewhat similar in size to small dslrs ! And any good lens will have a good weight, so this light weight frenze is rubbish unless u want a cheap shit plastic lens with a shit ass point n shoot !
I think with cameras going forward would mean going back, atleast imo. I rather get a small dslr... but the leica m8 and m9 are huge exceptions to what I said just now ;)

Alwin said...

Pentax 645d is a great camera, no doubt. The size of it is also great ! ;) add on a decent lens and it will challenge even Olympic heavylifters, hehe.
Yes, I heard about kodak selling its sensor business to someone. Too bad. The leicas have kodak sensors and u can see why. A sensor afterall is the heart n soul of the camera.
I can also imagine german companies trying to steal the super ccd technology from fuji too! And then put into leica, hasselblad and sell it for 100 times the price!! I ve seen the leica m8 and its surely more than the sensor. Btw its made in Japan.

Alwin said...

Pentax 645d is a great camera, no doubt. The size of it is also great ! ;) add on a decent lens and it will challenge even Olympic heavylifters, hehe.
Yes, I heard about kodak selling its sensor business to someone. Too bad. The leicas have kodak sensors and u can see why. A sensor afterall is the heart n soul of the camera.
I can also imagine german companies trying to steal the super ccd technology from fuji too! And then put into leica, hasselblad and sell it for 100 times the price!! I ve seen the leica m8 and its surely more than the sensor. Btw its made in Japan.

Viisshnu said...

Basel as in that cirty where that watch thign happens every year ?? I am also a bit into watches, but as with my cameras I am very frugal and dont buy marketing hype watches like Rolex. Rolex is the ygliest watch ever made, except for showing off, its not good for anything else.

not need to be in two minds. Most modern CMOS sensors are utter garbage, particularly sony and canon. Today I checked out a 6D for sale, images are crap for lack of a better word. Also checked out the much hyped D700, the images are not even half good as my D200, right now comparing pics side by side, D200 wins hands down.

I also said there are a few exceptions, particularly Nikon's 24 megapixel APS-C CMOS sensors in D3300 and D5300 (both thankfully lack the low pass filter and as sharp as a shaving blade) and Fuji X-Trans sensors. O avoid all sony SLTs, Nex and A7 series, and all canon cameras. Colors are way way way off with canon. I have only seen faithful colors from Nikon DSLRs.

Trust me, fuji X-trans is million years ahead of earlier generation CMOS sensors like the ones in D300. Fuji X-Trans is as good as a CCD.

20k INR is a very good price for the Xpro1, but ofcourse family is priority ;)

Viisshnu said...

Haha yes, K10D is amazing but the Fuji X-Trans sensor is marginally better, is newer, with newer tech. I use an old LG Flatron L1515S monitor at home, iMac in the studio and Macbook air tethered to camera during location shoots. When you are seeing X-Trans images for a moment forget its CMOS. Then may be you will like the images from Fuji cameras. I had the same "perception issue" haha. There are certain times when the K10D will fall short, like in colors, resolituin and dynamic range when compared to Fuji, NOT because its CCD, but because its slightly older tech. Irrespective of that it STILL IS a champion camera. I am planning to get one since a long time and the prices have come down a lot on ebay. but if given a choice I would still go with a fuji instead of a K10D.

Check out these fuji images:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/misokaco/16243702318/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thecombover/10632372395/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23964834@N08/14926367290/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/9117929@N08/13178087915/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpto_55/32817965402/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewlockie/8263456547/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danno33/10252540945/

Like Fuji you cant use legacy lenses on the K10D. I am getting fuji because of this and also the fact that the sensor is as good as any CCD.

Viisshnu said...

haha you are right about the mirrorless craze. when you pair it with a good lens its as big as a DSLR. I too hate these mirrorless cameras. They dont even look like real cameras and most of them are utter crap, but I excuse the fuji cameras from the list solely because of the image quality. I am not buying an X-E1 either becuase its mirrorless or because its small, but only because of the image quality. small point and shoot mirrorless cameras are for girls and low testosterone lady boys haha. Unless somebody has arthritis in the wrists, there is no excuse to not use a DSLR. Ofcourse leicas are an exception, since people dont buy it because its mirrorless but because of the image quality. There are always exceptions ;)

Viisshnu said...

The Pentax 645D is sure a badass camera. Also light years ahead of Leica M8 or M9 or any other leica camera available today. Far far better than the D800 series or Canon 5DSR for high resolution work.

Yes Kodak sold off their sensor business to TrueSense, a European company. As you know the Leica M8 uses the KAF-10500 APS-H kodak sensor. I am not sure where its made as there is no information. May be not Japan, M9 as you know already, also has the kodak sensor.

Ofcourse super CCD is the patented technology
of Fuji and I am sure they wont share it with anyone else. There are people on dpreview talking about the virtues of the S5 Pro and comparing to X-Trans sensor. To each his own I guess, haha. May be you know the X-Trans is a non bayer sensor. Have a look at the comments here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3735416#forum-post-54509081

Viisshnu said...

IMHO if you like the K10D more than the Fuji, by all means get it. Its DSLR form factor might syuit you more. Also its a pro grade camera with weather sealing and magnesium alloy, something lacking in the fuji x cameras. ;)

Alwin said...

Baselworld. Yes it happens every year so that high class prostitutes can fly in from all over the world and entertain snob ass bastards wearing rolex! Omega is garbage too and tag heuer!! Believe me Japanese watches like citizen, seiko are equally good compared to their swiss counterparts.
Dont buy into all this garbage ass talk about high precision engineering marvel.. fucking high sounding words. China made a flying tourbillon for under 2000 dollars and stunned the world!! Want a beautiful timepiece, get the citizen pro master ;)
Mate, I think I will skip buying any camera, lens for now and wait.... im not in urgernt need now as photography is my hobby afterall. But I do take my hobby very very seriously! I would choose a rangefinder over a mirrorless anyday but that day isnt gonna be today or tomorrow ;)
As far as pentax k10d, I like the colours very much. Very rich, contrasty, deep colours yet real! Also to match the sensor I would need a pentax smc 1.4 and im just not ready to invest in another system now I guess.
Yes I read the forum where they were comparing s5 with the fuji x and it did mention that the skin tones are not there yet however the output is very similar to fuji s3 s5.
U see I have two fuji s3 s and I have it for a reason;) and I dont think iam going to part with any of it soon ;) in the end the best camera is what I have in my hand right now!!

Viisshnu said...

I hate all these over hyped swiss watches like huer, rolex and omega. Its all marketing to steal your hard earned money. They are all mass market garbage. I have a seiko 5 and it feels like a million bucks on my wrist with a custom made leather strap. Citizen night hawk is my favorite tool watch.

Haha yes I read about that chinese tourbillion, these swiss buggers must be really surprised.

Yes as a non professional all you need is just one camera. No need to buy a bazillion cameras.

Yes the lenses stopped be from buying the K10D as I have a full Nikon lens kit.

Send me a link to S3 pictures if that is alright.

Alwin said...

But the more I look at the output from the k10d, the more I want it ;) the colours are gorgeous, And my work is all about colour!!
Love to pair it with a f1.4 and go shooting. Let's c

Alwin said...

I havent uploaded my work yet. If u want i can send it to your email id sometime.

Viisshnu said...

I saw the K10D for $128 on ebay. Thats probably the lowest I have seen. Sure send it anytime to write2viisshnu@gmail.com

Cheers.

Alwin said...

Thanks for the heads up!
Yesterday I scratched the sensor on my fuji s3 while cleaning it for the first time :( :( .... It was the older of the two, broken, grip held together by super glue but I really enjoyed holding it and taking pictures :(
From what I read is that it is the ir filter..... I feel bad now. RIP for now! Maybe later when I have 300 dollars lying around I will give it another life ;) .

Viisshnu said...

May be its the Universe's way of telling you to buy a new camera ;)

Alwin said...

Exactly! Why couldnt the universe be more straightforwardly and ask me, whisper, yell, etc than making me ruin my lovely camera... sometimes the universe has crazy ways to send the message across 😀😀😂😁

Katie Cahill said...

Fuji X A1 (Bayer) is even better than all the X Trans Fujis, and probably the cheapest too.

Viisshnu said...

I have to differ with you and respectfully say Fuji X-A1 (Bayer) is NOT better than any XTrans. IMO the only two advantages include the lower price and the raw files support in post processing softwares like photoshop or lightroom. If you have to use bayer sensor there are definitely better options with even lower prices from other manufacturers. I think using a camera with a bayer sensor kinda defeats the purpose of using a Fuji camera.

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